Fahrenheit 9/11

[SpeedCricket]

"I don't care about it" "I'm tired of talking about it" "I have more important things to worry about" "We don't want to hurt the morale of troops"

These sentiments really sicken me. Maybe when your ass gets drafted and sent
you will wish you had talked more about it or actually done something to have prevented it.
Are we so self-centered that we can't be concerned that our friends and family may have been sent into danger under false pretenses? Great, you might be able to opt out of a simple conversation while cheerleading from the sideline, but you won't be able to opt out when you are wearing fatigues in 110 degree heat.

I have a good friend who has had his whole life flipped by this shit. Always fearless and upbeat, he once told me that all Americans should just obey GWBush as he is "father of the country, and you just don't disobey your father." But the desert, insufficient training, adn lack of supplies has even got him doubting. MMoore had nothing to do with that. Our troops have gotten screwed for no good reason, and this needs to be talked about. But, hey, I'll wait until you get your draft card if you want - we'll have a lively conversation then eh?

[mistasparkle*]

There's definitely more than one way to fight a war. Fighting to keep our loved ones and friends from being put in harms way, for no good reason, is one way of fighting. I'd argue that going to the frontlines (or attempting to) even with good intention makes us less safe, by supporting Bush's war.


Edit: I'm replying to a post that disappeared!

[Beeeph]

I'm really trying to learn to keep my mouth shut about some things on this forum. Yes, I did delete my post seconds after writing it. Sorry for making you look crazy Mr*.

P.S. How'd I know you'd make that argument

[Ocean11]

Beeeph, you just don't have what it takes to participate in an adult discussion. Don't blame it on anybody else.

> P.S. How'd I know you'd make that argument

Because you might be a little bit bright after all perhaps? Don't suppress it, you'll feel much better.

[Beeeph]

yeah, well you're ugly.

[Bill Drayton Jr.]

I didn't even read what you posted though...but I really don't have to because: discussions about politics and religion are worthless arguments. Why? Because you end up arguing about opinions. Nobody can win at this because there is no such thing as right or wrong when it comes to opinion.

Not that I am trying to side with beeph but I know he "has what it takes to participate in an adult conversation" but why the fuck would you want to have one of those things here?!?!?!

[Bill Drayton Jr.]

I'm definitely siding with beeph now... I'm especially fond of this:

I think all you democrats are a bunch of whiney little bitches, pist because your side's not callin the shots. Get a fucking life and stop calling Micheal Moore brilliant, the dude's a fucking clown and nothing more. And I think all you republicans are the most hard headed, ignorant fools on the planet. Lay off the fox news channel, put on some chappelle. I think all you peole who don't take poltics all that seriously are normal human beings. You can think of me as one of those people who don't vote because they genuinly don't care about government politics.

So...speaking of whiny little bitches - that's definitely what this thread has turned into...Because if you REALLY fucking care about this shit then take some real fucking action and do something other than post this stupid shit here!

Seriously! If "Everyone in this forum is more intelligent than average" than there wouldn't be the replies that are here because of knowing how futile it is...So as a personal favor for me find another place to whine...you stupid whiny little bitches...

[Ocean11]

Well I've been bugging my elected representative about this issue, although I haven't had much response from her. That's what people who give a shit do. I hope all the other people who give a shit don't believe that voicing admiration for Gutbucket Moore constitutes suitable democratic action.

Why discuss it here? Well if there was anybody but a troll with a masochistic ego to discuss it with, there is a very remote possibility that some insight might result. I have learned a few things from genuine, intelligent conservatives on forums before, so I don't give up hope. Some of them have also given me a good laugh (with, not at).

What is the point of anybody trolling through here, pissing and whining, when there are plenty of jolly small animal and video game topics on other threads to last a lifetime? Anybody who does that sort of thing is quite obviously demonstrating an incapacity to look at some important issues.

Are they really important issues? Well, my petrol costs more now, and for the first time in my life, I'm slightly concerned about terrorist threats. And I don't like my democratic representatives telling me Big Lies. Having once been a naiive kid in green with a big gun once myself, I'm bothered that similar lambs are going off to be slaughtered for nothing. And I have sufficient mental bandwidth to lead a full life and have some concern about this, so you don't need to froth up too much complaining about that on my behalf.

So, trolls, if you don't like some rational if inflamed discussion, well, fuck you.

[Bill Drayton Jr.]

he talks funny too...

[Darth Vective]

No wonder your president is a fucking moron.

[mistasparkle*]

So I finally wrangled down a bittorrent for a decent release of F911, and watched it again (sort of) last night. The first copy I had was a really bad cam with almost no sound and a huge chunk of the movie missing.

All I can say is... holy shiat. I wasnt really expecting to learn anything new, but there were alot of things I had never seen before:

The whole bit about the long-time relationship of the Carlysle group (bin-laden/saudi investment group) and how they stood to make tons of money on United Defense stock (among others) due to the aftermath of 911 totally blew me away.

The government comprising of ex Unocal executives Bush installed in afghanistan to subsequently build a lucrative natural gas pipeline from the caspian sea (including karzai).

The scene showing the admin stating that Iraq posed no threat and then how they changed their tune after 911 had me thinking what I was thinking through most of the movie: "how the fuck did they get away with so much... right in front of the american people!?!"

Bush's initial refusal to release the admins 911 report to the 911 commision... and eventually his refusal to release parts of the report detailing saudi money involvement.

That war convention "once the oil starts flowing there will be alot of money for all of you".... "no matter what it costs, we will pay you."


It made me angy, sad, and maybe even a little bit more pessimistic about the future of the US. How is Bush not being impeached for his conflict of interests and unprovoked war mongering? Why isn't there even an investigation? As much as I think Kerry would beat him fairly. Something tells me Bush will win in november, and it will be due to something like a terrorist attack, rescheduled elections, felon lists, or some other scandal that will get swept under the rug with the rest of them.

Michael Moore just put up a section on his site with all the sources and info to back up the claims made in his movie, but no matter what, it seems people who want to dismiss the facts in the movie as fiction because the movie is made by Michael Moore will find a way to do just that.

[Darth Vective]

Hey we don't need fucking whacko Michael Moore anymore to tell the dipshit jingo dorks that Eyeraq has been a counterproductive disaster when we have the C bleedin' I fuckin' A saying it's been the biggest boon for Al Qaeda since the cutter knife. And there's Tony Blair (hi Tony, and thank you!) being slowly peeled alive in the UK for the same crimes.

SSSHHHHHH, don't say that in case the evil Eyeraqi's hear and take it as encouragement!!


Hahahaha Muhahahahahahaha!

[enderzero]

So it seems to be out on DVD now. Anyone pick it up?

I HIGHLY recommend "The Corporation" too, which doesn't seem to yet be available.

[Beeeph]

Did it just come out?

Newsgroups are fabulous! I had that shit months ago...