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mistasparkle*
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Post by mistasparkle* »

G-mon! A closet republican!?! Say it aint so! How did you keep the truth from us so long? ;)
Out of curiosity, what republican values do you align yourself with?


J3RK - I agree with you man, bi-partisanship got the country into the two halves that it is now. It's just become too easy for politicians/newsmedia to pander to "the left" or "the right" and call it democracy. I blame alot of it on the media for pitting a republican talking head against a democrat talking head, and calling it objective reporting. WTF ever happened to acknowledging that there are more than two sides to an argument, theres more to an issue than black and white. American democracy has been watered down by talking-points, argument-framing, and a lack of any spectrum of opinion.

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Post by mistasparkle* »

MY MODEST PROPOSAL: THE U.S.A.R.
By C. B. Shapiro

I feel bad for the Red States.

Yes, they won the White House, Congress, the Supreme Court and most of the state houses. But they still can't have the country they really want because the last few Blue States won't roll over. So I am making a simple proposal:

Secession. Divorce. Splitsville.

Personally, I think we made a huge mistake not letting them go when we had the chance back in 1862. Well, no time like the present to correct an old mistake.

Then, they would finally be free to have the kind of society they've always wanted; church and state can be fused so they build the kind of theocracy they've dreamt of, with Jesus at the helm. Then the new USAR (United States of America Red) can ban books, repeal civil rights, persecute gays and have all the wars they like. They want prayer in schools? More power to them. They can ban abortion and post the Ten Commandments in every federal building in their country. Bring back slavery, if they want. We'll be free to live with our like-minded countrymen who believe in science, modernism, tolerance, religion as a personal choice, and truly want limited government intrusion in our personal lives. Why should each side be driven mad by the other any more, decade after decade?

Call the Culture War a tie and everyone go home.

Of course, we in the U.S.A.B. get the Gross Domestic Product, businesses and universities of California, New York, Massachussetts -- basically the whole Northeast and Northwest (plus Illinois and Michigan if they want to come along). They get Wal-Mart and Duke and most of the Nascar tracks. But they can feel free to import movies, TV shows, financial services, and defense technology. We'll import country music, bibles and Confederate flags.

The two countries will by necessity have open immigration policy: anyone who feels they are living in the wrong country can just move across the border, no questions asked.

Ultimately, why should I have to convince my fellow countrymen that Darwin may have had a point and that the word “liberal†is not equivalent to “godless communist?†And why should they be forced to live in a country with morally corrupt non-believers? I'll stay in the messy, free-thinking U.S.A.B. And to the U.S.A.R. I say…

God bless you all, and see you at the U.N

Original

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Post by Goemon »

I was for less Big Government in the past (now I am not so sure), preferring a laissez-faire attitude. The Republicans used to preach that, but now they are spending what they don't have. Plus, most of the Democrats where I grew up were bumbling idiots in any debates I saw; it hardly endeared me to their cause. In the Federal elections though, I've voted non-Republican every time (Kerry this time and Bill Bradley the two times prior to that).

I know I said I would go in a conservative forum, but it is SCARY :shock:

I need to muster up some strength before I post in Jesusland

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Post by mistasparkle* »

Yea, I don't think anyone really wants big government, but like you said, I can't see how republicans can claim they're for small government with all the debt they've racked up and the social intervention they've implemented (anti-gay, anti-science, anti-abortion, and other pro-chritian legislation). If the country wasnt so "red vs. blue," I think the other parties would bring the country closer to a democracy(libertarian, Green, Etc.).

Unfortunately, I don't think that will happen, but I really don't have much hope for the country in general lately.:cry:

p.s.-Go Bill Bradley!

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Post by mistasparkle* »

Goemon wrote:I need to muster up some strength before I post in Jesusland
Oh my....

A sample of the topics on the 1st page:

WE HAVE A MANDATE! (Pages 1 2 )
Do not reach out to the Liberal Left

Yasser Arafat dying of AIDS, Democrats angry (Pages 1 2 )
Another lack of funding victim?

On the Avowed Left Coast, a Feeling of Being Left Out
Latest news article from the New York Slimes

Unhappy Democrats Need to Wait to Get Into Canada (Pages 1 2 )

CNN Netscape (<-- as if CNN is a "liberal" network. I like the evil netscape tie in too! :D)
show their true colors

Liberals going to CANADA!

Zogby Polls vs. real numbers
2000 was a fluke

MONSTER'S DEADLY WARNING TO 'RED' STATES (Pages 1 2 )
will spare any state that votes against President Bush


:wtf: :uhh: :noway: :crazy: :wasted:

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Post by Goemon »

Image

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Post by mistasparkle* »

You might want to try something a little less repulsive:

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com

I don't know how the board is now, but last time I checked (a few months ago), it was a pretty even balance of dem, rep, libertarian, green, constitution.... etc. (although it may change depending on how vocal certian groups are. Last I checked the moderators were not so good at stopping useless flaming, but... have a look)

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Post by Beeeph »

Darth Vective wrote:Yeah, I'm outta here again. This is still teh likkle cute monkeys forum, and Beeeph is still a big hard Republican wet with nothing to say for himself.
HA! Who is this guy ender? How do you know me? Sometimes it's fun to piss people off, but not when I don't know why I pissed them off. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, darth.

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Post by Big Shit »

http://www.madeyouthink.org/home.htm

Hey, J3RK. Where did you find that Moby's "dear Canada"? It's funny. :ninja:

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Post by R3C »

It was posted on an audio forum I'm on. :D

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Post by enderzero »

Darth Vective wrote:Yeah, I'm outta here again. This is still teh likkle cute monkeys forum...
:eek: What teh hell does that mean?

That is Ocean11 beeeph.

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Post by Darth Vective »

ender, it means that even though the somewhat puerile and ultimately tiresome jeu d'esprit of the Monkey Lair has been split off, it still persists here. Beeeph wants to say his dumb shit without feeling any obligation to back it up, retreating instead into that pathetic 'this isn't a serious forum so don't try to get me involved' line. Yes, Beeeph, I do know you, I've read your other posts.

Goemon, that GOP site took my breath away. I hadn't realized things had got so bad over there. Before his reincarnation as the Muslim Elder Statesman, bin Laden used to say some pretty wacky fundamentalist things, but those freaks on the GOP website outdo his worst excesses by far. I thought that maybe Anne Coulter was cultivated as something of a clown by those who feed her, but not so - her hate-filled gibberish is mild compared to the Amen-baying 'pray for the innocents that we're going to kill' wackos on the GOP forum. Nice company you choose for yourself Beeeph, and danz's intelligent family.

Fundamentalist Fascism is alive and well in America. I just hope some people in the British Labour Party are aware of exactly what they're allying us with.

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Post by Megatron »

Darth Vective wrote:Fundamentalist Fascism is alive and well in America. I just hope some people in the British Labour Party are aware of exactly what they're allying us with.
I'm sure they know exactly what they are into. The people behind the scenes don't know country lines...they know money, power, and control. If you are the privledged and wealthy beyond your wildest dreams then it doesn't matter. Whats the end game? Total control.

Love,

Your friendly neighborhood conspiracy theorist.

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Post by mistasparkle* »

The scary thing is that it's not like these guys are "behind the scenes" anymore. The neo-cons make no secret their plans for global American governance, and use of military might to ensure a prosperous american century:
The Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American leadership is good both for America and for the world; that such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle; and that too few political leaders today are making the case for global leadership.
We seem to have forgotten the essential elements of the Reagan Administration's success: a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.

Of course, the United States must be prudent in how it exercises its power. But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership.

Our aim is to remind Americans of these lessons and to draw their consequences for today. Here are four consequences:

• we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global
responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;

• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

• we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next.
I already posted this link earlier, but just to scare you some more:
Project for the New American Century

And to make matters worse... look at who created this program:
Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz
I hate to be a doomsayer, but I think we're all in for some dark times....

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Post by Beeeph »

Ender wrote:That is Ocean11 beeeph.
HA! I should've known. Who else talks like that? I still don't know what I said to piss you off. It's not like I'm claiming to know anything about anything regarding politics. It was probably my blatant disregard for "well-structured" sentences that got him all heated. Now if you wanna discuss microchip fabribcation or big hair metal bands, there are some topics I have a thing or two to talk about.
Darth Lonely wrote:Nice company you choose for yourself Beeeph
They're called close friends, you should try making a few.
Darth Angry at the World wrote:Yeah, I'm outta here again
Back so soon?

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Post by Darth Vective »

> It was probably my blatant disregard for "well-structured" sentences that got him all heated

Typical Republican dishonesty and character assassination. No Beeeph, what annoys me is your blatant disregard for having a single good reason for voting for Bush that anybody who can also talk about microchip fabrication ought to be able to express. But if you simply can't bring yourself to discuss politics, why do you keep posting your inane opinions on a thread about politics? There are other threads for the topics where you have a thing or two to talk about.

I'm still curious to know what good reasons there are for voting for Bush (good would have to mean something other than "It's a crusade we're fighting Brother", or "Burning oil is good for the environment and American workers")

Quote of the day:

Col. Gary Brandl voiced his troops' determination:
"The enemy has got a face. He's called Satan. He's in Fallujah and we're going to destroy him."


Brought to you by crusading Col. Brandl, winning hearts and minds in Iraq. Pity he didn't complete the Marine theology course...

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Post by Beeeph »

Darth wrote:...if only the dumb Bush voters would rise to it.
Darth wrote:Typical Republican dishonesty and character assassination
I guess the same could be said about many democrats such as Dan Rathers, Micheal Moore, and our very own Ocean11. So lighten up, darth.

I voted republican for my republican family who is republican. Whether or not that's a "good" reason, in your opinion, to vote for bush, it remains my reason. So deal with it and stop your crying.

Image <---Darth
Image <--- Sleeeph
Image <--- Enderzero
Image <--- J3RK 2.0 with SethCOM interface
Image <--- Admiral McNevin last night

Sorry, I just found all these and thought they were cool.

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Post by enderzero »

He's right beeeph, its stupid reasoning. If you are so a-political that you vote based on someone elses opinions, then why do you consistently insert yourself into political discussions?

Image

Image

Image

In case you weren't aware there are a couple of those and plenty other good ones here.

Survey says...! ...BEES!!

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Post by Darth Vective »

No it's a dumb reason. I'm not crying about it, I'm just pointing out why you're stupid. It's dumb because voting is a private affair and you can tell your dumb family you voted Fascist and they won't be any the wiser. They're used to swallowing obvious lies whole anyway, if'n they're Republican minded.

And I won't 'lighten up' either.

And nor am I a 'Democrat', and I pretty much despise both Dan Rather and Michael Moore.

So with each new post, you show how shamefully little you know.

For those who are interested in politics, there's an articule here by Greg Palast that says Kerry won the election.
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=392&row=0
Not that it makes any difference...

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Post by Beeeph »

No Beeeph, what annoys me is your blatant disregard for having a single good reason for voting for Bush that anybody who can also talk about microchip fabrication ought to be able to express.
That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. By that logic, since you know so much about politics, you should have alot to say about the process of microchip fabrication since you bought one to power your computer.
If you are so a-political that you vote based on someone elses opinions, then why do you consistently insert yourself into political discussions?
What opinions have I expressed in this discussion that I haven't backed up with some kind of logical reasoning? I was pulled into this conversation by somebody asking me a question and I haven't been preaching bush's gospel at any point of this conversation. For the love of god, It's like throwing out the word "Hip-Hop" at a Klu Klux Clan meeting in here. But you're both right (not that kind of right) about one thing, I should just keep my mouth shut about any kind politics on this forum because I'm so careless and, as a result, ill-informed about politics in comparison. And it's not like I haven't been saying that in plain english the whole time. Darth, I'm certainly not ashamed of being so unaware on the subject of politics, it's a good thing. Ignorance truely is bliss. For god's sake, look what it's done to you.

Darth, you completely discredit yourself with your "I hate the whole world" attitude. If you had a single positive thing to say about anything, I'd probably believe some of the bullshit you constantly spout, as you seem like a very logical person...at times. But because I'm so ignorant about politics, nothing you say sounds like hard evidence, but more like a conspiracy theory or an angry rant. That's what I mean when I say Lighten up.
In case you weren't aware there are a couple of those and plenty other good ones here.
I said GOD DYAM!

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Post by R3C »

Ok, I hate Bush. I don't necessarily hate all things republican, and I don't necessarily love all thing democrat. I do know, that regardless of Beeeph's reason for voting, whether anyone here likes it or not, calling he and his family stupid, is not cool at all. Maybe his reason for voting was stupid, maybe it wasn't. Maybe I absolutely detest who he voted for, and everything he stands for, but you don't see me calling names. If you really DID know Beeeph, you'd know he's anything but stupid, that he's a decent human being, and that he's a lot of fun to hang out with. I completely disagree with his vote, but that's why I voted differently. Last I checked, we had the freedom to say whatever we want on here, so I don't see any reason to attack him for that. If he doesn't want to back up his reasons, he can still comment. You can attack his comments, but I don't see any reason to attack him personally. Ocean-Vective, you disgust me. You pretty much always have. I'm attacking you personally, based on your personal attacks past and present. Just so you know, I'd never do based on your political stance, or any other opinion or statement. Only because you're calling names, and being a generally unpleasant person to have an association with, (even as small as an internet forum.) This will be my last ever post directed to you.

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Post by Goemon »

:uhh:
In other news, I'm going to post some cut and paste stuff I read in Z-Trip's forum. Sorry for the massively long posts coming...

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Post by Goemon »

It has been five days since the election. In that time, accounts of voter fraud and malfunctioning voting machines have flooded into local newspapers in Ohio, to public-interest groups, universities and weblogs. This message is an overview of those reports. The stories are summarized here, with links to the original publications. After seeing this evidence -- and there is more still to be rounded up -- I am no longer convinced that Bush won the election. I hope you will read through these summaries, click on the links to the original stories, and come to your own conclusions. I've included all the accounts of election tampering that I'm aware of, but have not done a broad search. This is only what I've learned in the fast five days.

My education was provided by a group of concerned journalists who posted reports to a chat list. This is a compilation of their research.

I believe there is enough evidence to suggest that the electorate may have actually chosen Kerry on Tuesday. We don't know for sure -- we can't know till there is a recount. Or, if that's not possible because of electronic voting machines, until the election is held over in Ohio and Florida.

Bush has not yet been chosen by the Electoral College. The Electors meet and vote on Dec. 13. We need to raise questions about the results -- and raise them loudly -- to get an investigation launched before that date.

So far, the mainstream media in not picking up the story. They moved very slowly after the 2000 election.

Here are the accounts of election tampering from four states, plus reports on multi-state problems.

(Please note: some of the newspaper links may expire soon. You may want to print out the stories so that later on, you don't have to buy them from the newspapers' archives.)

FLORIDA:

The most troubling news comes out of Florida. Throughout most of the state, new electronic voting machines were in use. These machines -- many manufactured by a company called Diebold -- are controversial because they don't leave a paper trail.

There is no way to double-check the results.

The final Florida tallies on Diebold machines from Tuesday are Literally unbelievable.

In 29 counties where Diebold machines (an optical scanner) were used to count the ballots, large majorities of voters were registered Democrats. But the final results gave all the counties to Bush, sometimes by huge margins.

The individual county data shows how unlikely the machine results were.

For instance:

In Calhoun County, 82% of registered voters are Democrats. But Diebold machines said 63% of the county voted for Bush.

In Lafayette County, 83% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 74% of the county voted for Bush.

In Liberty County, 88% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 64% voted for Bush.

In Washington County, 67% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 71% voted for Bush.

This same pattern appears in the results for 29 COUNTIES in Florida. In
every one of those counties, the Diebold Optical Scanner produced the
results.

The Optical Scanner has been called the voting machine that is most susceptible to tampering.

Many of you have been watching elections closely for years. Do you believe that in 29 Florida counties in which Democrats were in the majority -- in some cases with 4 out of 5 registered voters being Democrats -- they all voted strongly for Bush?

Here are the links.

You can find the voter registration/final result data here:
http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

You can find a story analyzing these results here:
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1106-30.htm

You can read about electronic voting machines -- an untested phenomenon in American elections, here:
http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i21thoreau.htm


THE OTHER PROBLEM IN FLORIDA:

In 6 counties -- again, they were all using electronic machines -- more
votes for President were recorded than there were actual voters in the
counties.

Altogether, these six counties reported 188,885 more votes for President than there are voters living there.

Right now, no one knows whether those extra 188,000 votes were cast for Bush or for Kerry. But Bush won the state of Florida by a 5% margin -- contrary to what all the polls were showing only days earlier.

In Glades County: 2,443 votes for Bush / 1,718 votes for Kerry / 27 votes for Other. Those add up to 4,188. But the machines recorded the official turnout as 3,446. That adds up to 742 more votes than voters.

In Highlands County: 25,874 for Bush / 15,346 for Kerry / 271 for Other.

Official Turnout: 33,996. That adds up to 7,495 more votes than voters.

In Miami-Dade County: 358,613 for Bush / 406,099 for Kerry / 3,841 for other. Official Turnout 716,574. That adds up to 51,979 more votes than voters.

In Osceola County: 43,108 for Bush / 38,617 for Kerry / 453 for Other.

Official Turnout 63589. That adds up to 18,589 more votes than voters.

In Palm Beach County: 211,894 for Bush / 327,698 for Kerry / 3,243 for other. Official Turnout: 452,061. That adds up to 90,774 more votes than voters.

In Volusia County: 111,544 for Bush / 115,319 for Kerry / 1,495 for Other. Official Turnout: 209,052. That adds up to 19,306 more votes than voters.

Use this link to get to the data:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/5/18466/2846


STILL MORE PROBLEMS IN FLORIDA

This account comes from partisans. Four Kerry volunteers working in Broward County sent a letter detailing election tampering to one of the reporters on our chat list. All four signed it and included their email addresses.

They report a wide, disturbing range of problems, from voters saying their electronic machines malfunctioned, poll workers denied them assistance, to police putting up roadblocks on the routes to polling places, and so on.

The entire text of the letter, along with the signatures, appears at the bottom of this letter.
-CONT.

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Post by Goemon »

OHIO

In Ohio, there were problems in four counties and one city.

In Howard County, a judge ruled on Election Day that everyone standing in line to vote at 7:30 p.m. had to eventually be allowed inside.

The order said the ruling was good for the day of Nov. 2. (You can view the order at the website below.) But maybe it didn't occur to the judge that everybody might not make it inside by midnight.

At the stroke of midnight, when the calendar legally clicked over to Nov. 3, Republican Ken Blackwell, the secretary of state, told all the waiting voters to go home. His workers gave them paper ballots (i.e., provisional ballots), told them to fill them out and bring them back later.

It was an improvised move that undercut the intent of the judge's ruling, and created chaos. Many people in Howard County still haven't turned in those ballots because they don't know where to take them or what the deadline is.

The only kind of ballot in a federal election that people can legally take home, fill out and turn in later is an absentee ballot, and those are marked as such. They're marked with clear rules concerning deadlines, postmarking, and so on.

So an uncounted number of people in Howard County--estimated in the thousands-- couldn't get in and were turned away with what may be ruled an illegal procedure. The vast majority of those votes wre expected to go to Kerry based on the heavily Democratic population of Howard County.

The Democrats have filed a lawsuit. You can click on the Ohio State University law school website to read about it: http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cach...su.edu/election

Meanwhile, in Warren County, election officials locked the doors to the County building and refused to allow bi-partisan observers to watch the vote-count. They also denied access to the AP reporter (it is standard procedure for the AP to observe vote-counting in counties all over the country.)

The Sheriff of the county said he did it for "homeland security" reasons. He never explained or specified what the security concerns were.

Here is the link to the story in the Cincinnati Enquirer:
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/20...rrenvote05.html

Meanwhile, in a Columbus suburb called Gahanna, the same problem showed up with electronic machines that we saw in Florida: more votes were cast than there were voters to cast them. In this case, however, the problem was investigated and the extra 3,893 votes were shown to have been erroneously tallied for Bush.

Here is the link to the story on the Ohio Network News:
http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2524952


Meanwhile, in Mahoning and Mercer Counties, electronic machines again malfunctioned, but the effect that had on the vote count is not clear. The machines had to be re-set, and at one point showed votes of "negative 25 million," according to the head of the local board of elections.

Here is the story from the local Youngstown paper, called the Vindicator:
http://www.vindy.com/basic/news/281829446390855.php

INDIANA

In Laporte County, electronic voting machines once again appear to have failed.

They tallied results for 22,200 voters, even though there are 79,000 registered voters in LaPorte County. Assuming the county actually had a 65% turnout rate (comparable to others in the area and its own track record), that means 29,000 votes were not counted.

Here is the link to the story in the Michigan City News-Dispatch:
http://www.michigancityin.com/artic...news/news02.txt

NEW HAMPSHIRE

This is one of several states where original exit polls (interviews with voters as they are leaving) do not jive with the results produced by electronic voting machines. I was told by an administrator at Bev Harris's group, called BlackBoxVoting (more on this below) that they are urging Ralph Nader to press for a recount in New Hampshire. Nader was on the ballot there, so he is in a good position to ask for a re-count. You can read about Harris and her work at www.BlackBoxVoting.org.

SIX STATES

In at least six states, there was a large difference between how people said they'd voted, and how officials said they'd voted.

In Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, New Hampshire and New Mexico, there was a large discrepancy between what voters said in the original exit polls, and the final results claimed by election officials.

In each of those six states, electronic voting machines were used in some or most of the counties.

In contrast, in states where paper ballots were the primary method of voting, there was little or no discrepancy between original exit polls and
official results.

To see an easily viewable graph of this data, go to http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/todays_show.html

That graph was originally compiled by a website affiliated with The Raw Story, which often gets quoted in the major dailies. So far as I know, it's
a reputable site.

You can see their original posting here:
http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388

MORE ON EXIT POLLS

These are routinely conducted in elections by major news organizations. Accounts are surfacing that both the Associated Press and CNN (and perhaps others) later CHANGED their exit polling data to more closely resemble the official results.

So far as I know, none of the news orgs has offered an explanation. They may try to justify it on statistical grounds.

Here are two accounts. The first is very brief, the second is in-depth:
http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/04/11/ana04025.html

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/KEE411A.html

MORE ON ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES

Here is an except from the Moderate Independent website about Bev Harris's work. She is a freelance journalist who has been documenting how unreliable the machines are, and how vulnerable they are to tampering.

"Bev Harris, author of Black Box Voting and the BlackBoxVoting.org website, has documented numerous cases of electronic disasters. One occurred in Volusia County, Fla., in 2000 in which county election officials hand recounted more than 184,000 paper ballots used to feed the computerized system, after the central ballot-counting computer showed a Socialist Party candidate receiving more than 9,000 votes and Al Gore getting minus 19,000.

Another 4,000 votes were received for Bush that should not have been there.

"Election officials eventually tallied Gore beating Bush by 97,063 votes to 82,214. But the wrong numbers had already been sent to the media, which were used by FOX and other networks to erroneously call the election for Bush and swing the public relations part of the recount battle in his favor."

I urge you to get familiar with Harris and her work as quickly as possible.

Three Members of Congress Have Asked the GAO to Investigate the Election

Three Congressmen have asked the General Accounting Office, a federal agency, to investigate the election, citing questionable results in Ohio, Florida, North Carolina and California. Click here to see their letter to the GAO:
[url]http://forum.therandirhodesshow.com...ST&f=87&t=34711[/url]

Remember These Four Points:

-- Bush's approval numbers were consistently below 50% throughout the campaign.

-- New Democratic registrations in Ohio were 10 times that of Republicans, and in Florida, Democrats held a similar but somewhat smaller advantage.

-- All the polls that were still giving Bush leads after the debates were within the margin of error, and when the undecideds started making up their minds over the last weekend, Kerry's poll numbers were surging.

-- the $10 million exit-poll system, specifically designed not to fail this
time, clearly showed, in the original reports, a Kerry victory.

Other Voices to Hear:

Other people besides me and the journalists I know are beginning to
question the legitimacy of the election. Here are some of them:

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php

http://americablog.blogspot.com/arc...036269481 5839

http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingSecurity.htm

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/articl...8&mode=&order=0

Here is a report of voter complaints in 7 Southern states:
http://www.abcnews4.com/news/stories/1104/185549.html

Again, I urge you to realize that there may still be time to do something
about this before the Electoral College meets on December 13th.

The first step is to educate ourselves. The second step is to educate the mainstream media. The local and regional press, and the alternative media, have been doing their jobs; now we need the national press to do its job, too.

If you are concerned about this election being stolen, please do two things:

1) Send your concerns to everyone you know, both inside and outside the United States.

2) Send your concerns to the major news organizations.

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Darth Vective
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Post by Darth Vective »

Thank you for your kind words J3RK. I've never met anybody from this forum, so I only know them by what they post. I used to post more moderately, but I got attacked for my opinions and elicited some of the disgust and dismissal which you have again provided. It was either "you are sick person to believe that gay marriage is not necessary" or "why can't we talk some more about haw flakes". I then became Darth Vective and posted some rude things, and then buggered off completely, only to be invited back by ender in a gracious email.

You'll notice that I'm actually having a dialogue of sorts with Beeeph. While I call him stupid for his vote and what he says here, I haven't completely dismissed him and refused to address him anymore. I keep inviting him to comment sensibly in the hope that he'll point out some of the merits of his choice, if'n there are any.

I am indeed filled with bitterness and hatred at the moment. I think the world is moving rapidly towards environmental disaster, and we need to pull our collective finger out to do something about it. I'm frustrated by all the myriad reasons for not doing anything about it, either personally or collectively. Sometimes I express that, particularly in threads that are obviously meant to be political. People's lack of attention to politics and many of their daily choices are getting a lot of people killed - it's not as if voting doesn't have consequences in the real world. Anyway, if you can't bring yourself to address me again, I'll just have to deal with my disappointment as best I can.

Beeeph I don't see any problem with this;
> That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. By that logic, since you know so much about politics, you should have alot to say about the process of microchip fabrication since you bought one to power your computer
The logic goes like this; "Knowing about microchip fabrication requires a certain level of intelligence that should also be sufficient for spotting crude untruths and government policies that don't in any way meet one's own interests, large or small." All of the many other people I know who are intimately familiar with microchip fabrication, both American and English, have applied their analytic ability to the question of politics, and have come to the unavoidable conclusion that Republican politics are a hazard to themselves and the world as a whole. (Not that everybody involved in microchip fabrication is very good at seeing the big picture - I've just finished translating a book about LTCCs for an engineer from Fujitsu, and he hasn't noticed that most of what's in his book is already available in the public domain, in English.)

Goemon, have you sent your concerns to the major news organizations?

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R3C
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Post by R3C »

I was hoping to get a timely response. See you're hoping for sensible responses from Beeeph while calling his family stupid. That makes no sense to me. You want the world to change, but if you illicit this sort of response on a tiny level such as this, then what kind of grand-scale change can you expect. I try my best to be nice to people. I try my best to see that others do the same. I don't see how calling him names is going to get the kind of response you're looking for. I've been known to call names, but not in the way that I interpretted how you were. (Usually completely in fun and silliness.) This may be first, that this is text based, lacking inflection, and vocal context. Second, it could be because you were sucked up in a post that you felt very strongly about. Either way, to me it came across in a distasteful way. If I misinterpreted it, then I retract at least a portion of my post. I agree with a large portion of your views, but not quite to your extremes. Balancing an unbalanced world though, will require a delicate, thoughtful approach. It's not going to change overnight. If that was the goal, I imagine more problems would arise than be solved. Yes, a good portion of us come here to be silly. Know why? Because this originally started as just a few friends who no longer lived near eachother to stay in contact, and be the silly group that we always were in person. It evolved into this half topical format. You will have to deal with the fact that the whole poplulation of this board, does not come here for 100% serious reasons, even in the topical section. Perhaps a 3rd forum should be made for critical topics, and state of the world posts. This would give us 3 levels of seriousness, silliness, and mid-range topical discussion.

I came across the way I did, because I DO know Beeeph, and I know that while I disagree with him on this one thing, he is none of what you were implying. I didn't always have strong political views, but I expressed a few of them in here. I don't expect that everyone else feels as strongly about certain things that I do. I don't call them stupid for it.

You may know after my posts in this thread, that I do generalize who is stupid. :D But I don't call people names directly. See, I try to keep MY world in balance, by treating the people in MY world a certain way. I think despite some of my strangeness, and weird ways of doing things, that I'm a pretty nice, generous, helpful person. That tends to make other people extend that to me in return. If more people could strike a decent balance between silliness, generosity, rigidity, hostility, and only apply them to where they were truly due, then the world wouldn't be the way it is. I just do my best to make things nice around myself, and extend beyond that if given the chance.

Anyway, I'd go more into my distinctions between who is and isn't stupid, and all that, and my various shades of treatment, etc. But my work hours are done, and I'm going home.

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Goemon
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Post by Goemon »

have you sent your concerns to the major news organizations?
I found that at 4 in the morning in a fit of insomnia. I'll send something today. :sleep:

Have you sent anything?
Image

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Darth Vective
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Post by Darth Vective »

J3RK, I sometimes think niceness is part of the problem. Kerry was very nice to concede an election that he may well have won if only he had consistently gone for the throat (BTW, the only good thing about Kerry from my point of view was that he said he would try to reduce US demand for oil. How, I don't recall he said, but that's a novel departure.) A lot of what passes for politics is just people screwing over others by exploiting their reluctance to say clearly "Hey, don't fucking do that. That's wrong!" Edwards appears to have had the right instinct to keep fighting.

Goemon, I haven't yet, but I'll send something to UK media. My main concern at the moment is that the UK stops being an ally of the US. (What's with the flags...?)

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Beeeph
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Post by Beeeph »

I just read so much since my last post that I can't remember where I stand. Did I vote for Kush or Berry?

J3RK, W3RD TO YOUR MOTHER, BROTHER!

Darth, I greatly appreciate your effort to make the world a better place. I'm an educated man, but I'm afraid I can't speak intelligently about U.S. politics just as you can't speak intelligently about big hair metal bands. So we're even, no dumber no smarter than the other.
Enderzero wrote: :eek: What teh hell does that mean?
Ender, I think that means he's not too impressed with the changes going on here, and it's your fault.

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mistasparkle*
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Post by mistasparkle* »

Slashdot picked up the voting machine anomaly story: Link


I have a distant hope that Diebold will be exposed for the fraud that it is, and Bush will go down in a blaze of glory that Nixon would be proud of.

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