teh Forum

Been doin some pre-upgrade research and found some interesting trends in the mid-range video card market. All cards are within a few dollars of $150.

ATI X800 GTO2 - 256MB GDDR3 - 400MHz Core / 980MHz RAM

ATI 1600XT - 256MB GDDR3 - 500/1380

nVidia Geforce 6600GT - 256MB GDDR3 - 500/950

nVidia Geforce 6800 - 256MB DDR - 325/600

nVidia Geforce 6800XT - 256MB GDDR3 - 350/1000

nVidia Geforce 6800GS - 256MB GDDR3 - 450/1050

Here are a few articles about mid/low range performance:
Toms#1 - Toms#2 - HWSecrets
Some 'marks

3DMark2005 - AMD FX-57 + 2GB
2x 6800 Ultra = 10208
2x 6600 GT = 6245
X800XT = 6018
6800 GT = 4962
6800 = 3742

3DMark2005 - P4 3.4 + 1GB
x1600xt = 4991
x800 gto = 4919
6800gt = 4537
6600gt = 2872

Doom 3 - 1600x1200 High - P4 3.4 + 1GB
6800gt = 61.1
x800 gto = 43.5
6600gt = 43.4
x1600xt = 30.4

Any thoughts? Other articles? Which would you run?

I've read that the 6800GS is the best bang for the buck in that range...

When are you going for the upgrade?

I'd agree on the 6800GS. That is definitely the way to go for cost effective performance. They also overclock far beyond what a GT does, so you can actually get them to outperform a GT in many instances despite less pipelines. You can also add another one later.

When? ...good question. I might be building a system for this kid soon - which offers upgrade opportunities - but his will have to be an AMD system too so it isn't a bump down kinda build.

I am thinkin about the Venice 3500. Fry's has got a combo with an ECS K8T890A MB for $200. So I could use that MB in the kid's sys. I've got my eye on the Gigabyte nforce4 board in mind for myself. Newegg's got the K8NF-9 for only $76.

Question: Where the hell is the K8NF9 Ultra? And should I only buy an nforce4 Ultra board? What is the dif tween U and non-U? Just SATA 3Gb?

So then... hdd time. Anyone know what real world sata1.5 vs sata3 performance is like? Seen deals better than these?

320GB WD SATA1.5 = $123 / SATA3 = $130
400GB WD SATA1.5 = $180
(haven't thought about WD for a while but those prices are great)

Seagate...

That said, SATA 2 is WAY FASTER than SATA 1. I've got both types of drive, same brand, both with NCQ. My system drive is the .9 and my games/emus/apps drive is the .8. I've installed Windows on both in the past, and I'd say it installs in the 30-40% faster range. This is a guess, but I think it's pretty close. I got the .9 because it wasn't any more expensive than the .8. I thought, "I doubt it will make much of a difference, but whatever..." I thought wrong. It is totally apparent any time I do any drive intensive operation. Whether it's audio work, large copies, etc. I install some of the more performance hungry games to the system drive because it makes them run faster. If I had extra cash right now, I'd replace my .8 with the same size .9 (or larger.) Just bought a house though, so I can't. (loan just went through today) Anyway, it seems that I always recommend Seagate, and certain 3nd3rs don't listen, go buy an IBM, and then call the Admiral wondering why it's acting up. They're fast, cheap(ish) reliable, quiet, have a nice warranty, easy RMA, etc. I've been back on them since the U6, and have had ZERO complaints. This isn't a standard try to get people to like what you like sort of thing, it's a get-a-nice-drive-that-you-don't-have-to-worry-about-thing... WD drives are fine, many of the other drives are decent too, I'm not going to say they all suck, but...

Seagate...

I have 3 drives in my system and 2 are Seagates. I like Seagate.

but...

400GB Seagate 7200.9 $250
400GB WD $180

hmmm... I don't know if I like Seagate that much.

I won't buy Maxtor and probably won't buy Samsung but I have always had a "best deal" mentality when it came to Seagate, IBM, and WD. (And in that order of late btw).

I really do not think what is going on with my hdd is related to drive mechanics.

So what about Nforce4 vs Nforce4-U? Only the sata?

That's the only thing I've noticed about it. I'd have to sift through the specs to find any other differences. If you're only going to be using one card, and you want the extra drive performance, then go with the Ultra. Now that I've used SATA2 with a drive that gets some benefit from it, I won't use any less in my main system. The Seagate does cost a bit more for the top end, but the price scales differently as you drop back a couple drives. The 300GB drive is only $150 locally. They only make 80, 120, 160, and 500GB .9s, (from what I can tell) so there doesn't appear to be anything in the middle if you want that drive. 500GB for $300 isn't all that bad though. Wish I had a drop of extra cash for one. (well, since this is hypothetical, make that two) Anyway, grab the 160GB .9 for $80 for a fast system drive, and then pick up a cheaper large drive for storage. That's actually how I'm set up right now, and it works quite well. Where did you see the 400GB .9 listed anyway? I didn't see one on Newegg, HDNW, or CS. Maybe they just aren't that popular.

I'm going to give a good recommendation to the BFG NF4U motherboard. It's rock solid, it's blue, it's pretty cheap, they used good power components (capacitors etc.) it overclocks well, etc.

I'd also recommend the ASUS boards despite the problems that McNevin and I experienced. Just watch that CMOS batter clip.

I've heard and seen mixed results with the MSI boards. Some people are running them with no problems, and some people can't seem to get them running right at all. They fluctuate quite a bit in the voltage department as well. Some of the previous MSI boards I had were great, but the newer batches are a little inconsistent.

DFI makes everyone's favorite board, but they are quite expensive, so for building a lower cost system I can't recommend it.

Abits are stable, and have some nice features, but the board layout is what I will refer to as abominable. You can't put the bottom right corner screw in because of a drive header, I don't like the audio riser card being above the PCIe slots, among other little things. Nothing functionally bad, just layout.

I don't know anyone currently running the Gigabyte, but I don't really hear any complaints about them either these days. As long as they're using decent power components, I don't see why they'd cause you any problems.

I think I'd go with BFG, ASUS, or GB for your purposes.

The 7200.9 is available at NewEgg.

But what aren't available there are any BFG MBs. Didn't even know they were making boards. Looks great though. I love the designs with switched dimms. $100 at thenerds.net. That's my choice for now unless the K8NF9 U shows up suddenly with hot pricing.

Weird, it didn't show up when I looked. Maybe one of my search criterea confused it or something. Yes, I'm very much enjoying the BFG board. One thing you'll want to do though, is flash the BIOS when you get it. The new one fixes a lot of silly little problems. I don't know if you're planning to pick up an X-Fi (which is quite the audio card by the way, even though it's a Creative product,) but it will make the motherboard act funny without the new BIOS. Other than that, I've seen zero problems.

CPUs:

Venice 3500+ $202
San Diego 3700+ $212

Same Frequency (2.2GHz) but newer core with 1MB of L2 cache to Venice's 512MB. I imagine the Venice OCs better than the SD - but I prolly won't OC anyway.

...Go with the San Diego?

1 mb cache!

Get 1MB cache if you can. They will both OC about the same, so that's not really an issue. If I was you though, I'd save up another $80 and get a dual core chip. It really helps more than you'd think. First of all several games are starting to benefit from two cores. Second, I know you do a fair share of ripping, encoding, etc. And this really helps there. You can rip and encode while playing a taxing game. It's quite snappy when doing things in Windows too. I'd take a 3800+ with 512K caches per core over a single core with 1MB cache any day now. I would have debated a bit first before, (even right after I went X2,) but things are all running quite smoothly now, and it really does help. The latest Quake IV patch shows some nice improvements when SMP is enabled. I also really like to be able to encode and burn DVDs while playing real games. It definitely helps for all things video/audio/photo/etc. too. The two chips you selected are definitely nice, and way better than any Intel offering (if one was to ask me,) but 2 cores is better than one in this day and age.

Hmmmm... sounding more and more convincing. Reminds me of the ol' dual P3 600EBs. Funny thing is I ditched that rig for my first AMD system - the Athlon XP 1400 if I remember correctly.

Thunderbird 1400. Pre XP. That was a nice chip. I thought of your old P3 system when I wrote that. I had a nice dual P3 733 system for a while too. I wish there had been more that took advantage of it back then.

When are you planning to build this thing? I could sell you my X2 3800+ for $250 if you want. It runs perfectly at 2400MHz. I'm thinking about getting a dual core Opteron because supposedly they OC a bit higher. Quite a bit more expensive though. Let me know if you might be interested. I have a bit of house-buying stuff to do, so I probably wouldn't be able to do it for another week or two, but we could figure that out if you are indeed interested.

I will probably have to act a bit faster than that and likely will jump at a MB/CPU deal from Fry's (using the MB in another system). Although that is up in the air. I will get back to you on that. THX

No problem. I could probably do it as early as next Wednesday. Just let me know.

Damn Damn Damn... I am torn now. I was all set to just buy the 3700 San Diego for $212 - but now I can't stop thinking about the X2. Fry's has got a deal for the 3800 X2 for $280 with an ECS K8T890. The problem is I don't think that board is really right for this kid's system.

Aaargh, and the BFG went up to $130 with no Gigabyte Ultra board in sight.

I'm going to hold onto my X2 now. I'll need to wait a little while to do an upgrade. I'm trying to build up a nice monetary buffer since I'll soon be paying a lot more per month for living expenses.

Anyway, why does that board not look right for him? Looks pretty standard to me for a modern board. Is it missing requirements, or is it too much? I hadn't heard of "AGP Express" before. It must be just a bridged AGP solution off of the PCIe bus or something. That would be weird though since AGP is a port and not a bus. Interesting.

Does the release of nVidia's New 7900 Line make my (soon to have) 6800GT 3rd Generation??

Ars article for those only interested in reading a 5 paragraph article. Plenty of links at the bottom for those who want to read 50 pages.

That's how it goes with vid cards these days

The second you buy one, a newer generation is coming out. No worries though, because the 6800GT is a kick-ass card that will shred most games anyway.

ahh HOT!! My new 7200.9 is all imaged up and running back at full speed (well SATA1.5).

Make mine Chaintech - Newegg finally got a new nForce4Ultra board up for sale - and cheap at $63. No 1394 (BFG Clone at a fraction of the price??). Damn, still no Gigabyte.

waiting...

Don't look now, but...


... it's on its way...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102003

[TEE HEE HEE]




Didn't go with the XTX because I didn't think an extra 25MHz clock was worth ~$50 That's ~$2 per MHz increase. Everything else about the card is the same as the XTX.

Wow! Back to the ol ATI.

It is now in my hands. Still another 45 minutes to go today too!!

Anyway, this thing weighs around 80 pounds. It's a 2 slot jobby, with exhaust through the second slot. (much like the Arctic Blast Mad Dog Predator Mean Guy 6.2 coolers) I'm going to immediately clock it up to XTX speeds. It's such a small increase. Maybe I'll even flash the XTX bios onto it. I'll run 3DMark06 on it once it's in.

WWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The card is damned nice. Oblivion is totally smooth and quick outside now too. I can run demos that for whatever reason wouldn't run on the 7800 as well. I didn't have time to run 3DMark, but I will tomorrow night. WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!