Ralph Nader and Dennis Kucinich

Ocean11 · Post by **Ocean11** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:35 am

Um gosh, I haven't had to play the 'summarize the book in twenty sentences game' since age 22, although I got rather good at it.

1. At Odds with the World - and Ourselves
About how Clyde is actually quite conservative but is going to paint himself a pinko - but he's right dammit. The US used to be admired and loved, and now in many places it is feared and hated. The embrace of the world after 9/11 was rejected.

2. The Unacknowledged Empire
USers hate to admit it, but they are at the centre of a military, political and cultural empire. Even if they don't realize it, everybody else does. It is maintained by one or a combination of pressure, inducement, and persuasion. Failure to acknowledge this is a bit daft and leads to a distorted view.

3. America's Game
How the US pretends to stand up for fair trade but doesn't actually. How this pisses a lot of people off around the world. Yes, the US was generous after WWII, but it's a tightfisted shit now.

4. Running on Empty
How the US pretends that oil is not a motivating factor, but how of course it is really. The US compares very badly with every other country in terms of energy efficiency, instead preferring to put it's head in the hornet's nest of the Mideast and wasting vast amounts of money protecting its er, energy empire.

Then I got distracted by another book called Ghost Soldiers. I'll let you know about the rest of the Prestowitz book as I get thru it.

mistasparkle* · Post by mistasparkle* » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:27 pm

Mathew Rothschild, editor of the progressive, has a great, although improbable, idea for Kerry.... assemble a democrat's dream-team cabinet.

Goemon · Post by **Goemon** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:32 pm

I think that's a good strategy, but could backfire when the Democrats start publicly sniping about "who gets what position". Has anyone tried something like that before (this early in the game)?

BTW, I know who Bill Richardson is: He has acted as a proponent for reforming drug policy (ie decriminalize marijuana, allow "medical marijuana" for patients, etc). I wouldn't mind to see him as VP (or Drug Czar), but I imagine the Republicans will focus on this issue to "discredit" him.

Post by **enderzero** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:14 pm

I was just about to post something about Kerry assembling a pre-cabinet when I got to Mista*'s Rothschild link. What a great idea! How much sense does Edwards as Attorney General make? He is young and popular and should definitely have a place in a Democratic presidential cabinet. I don't know too much about Richardson but he seems like a good choice. This kind of strategy could backfire if the Repubs can find a weakness and exploit it, but it seems like a risk worth taking. Look at all the positive and popular politicians that got publicity during the Dem race. It would be a shame if they just faded into the distance during the Kerry "middle-of-the-road corporate media" push for the presidency. How about making some room for the lefties like Kucinich, Graham, and maybe even Nader in that cabinet? If the Bush cabinet can have ultra-righties like Ashcroft and Norton then there is some room in the Kerry-cab for some greens. Are the Dems listening? This is a damn good idea.

I spent the last week watching a lot of TV and discussing issues with a variety of people from retired Teaxas Republicans to Berkeley born liberals. A lot of Americans aren't as ignorant as some people think. Even the Texas republican admitted to not being as gung ho about Bush this go around. He isn't necessarily voting for Kerry but he is gonna be listening...even if it is to Fox News. There is a ton of talk about this race and the issues. Most non "swing states" have already been written off, but I must have seen Nader on TV a half a dozen times. It was all completely eclipsed right before I left by Martha Stewart, but whatever is hot...

There was also a lot of talk about the negative reaction to Bush's TV ads that pictured images of Sept. 11th. So Bush has 100Mil+ to spend on this campaign and the first big ads to come out are already controversial. How does he plan to spend this money anyway?

SpeedCricket · Post by **SpeedCricket** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:29 pm

Thanks Ocean for the breakdown, you have made me decide...to read the damned thing! I just know there's some crud in there about the Marshall Plan and I just have a feeling it will be on the exam....

Ender, where are you talking to these USers at? Not in the US I'm assuming. Remember, most po-dunk-can-name-every-player-on-every-sports-team-and-recite-the-friday-night-abc-network-lineup folks who make up the majority of the USA are the undereducated who never leave the US because "people in those other places all live in huts." Folks travelling/living abroad usually are smarter than the avg. USer.

Beeeph, anyone, seriously, why does everyone like Edwards? Can anyone tell me one of his policy stances without search-engining him?

Beeeph · Post by **Beeeph** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:55 am

SpeedCricket wrote:Beeeph, anyone, seriously, why does everyone like Edwards? Can anyone tell me one of his policy stances without search-engining him?

ask-jeeves search engine results for "why does everyone like Edwards?"

Jeeves wrote:WE simply have to elect Edwards as our next president. There is no other candidate which will look out after everyone's interests like Edwards.

thats a damn good reason if you ask me...or jeeves.

To be honest with you, I don't really care for any of the dem candidates this time around, including edwards. But edwards seems a little more towards the middle than the others, which I like, and I just really wanna see anyone but kerry take the stand.

mistasparkle* · Post by mistasparkle* » Tue Mar 09, 2004 1:06 am

Beeeph wrote:...I just really wanna see anyone but kerry take the stand.

Just out of curiosity... what don't you like about Kerry?

Ocean11 · Post by **Ocean11** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:08 am

> Then there's Clark. He remains a valuable asset, able to hit Bush with roundhouses about not protecting the country from 9/11. A possible CIA director?

The other cabinet members look OK, but let's be realistic about the blame for 9/11. It's not with Bush II. It's with Carter, Reagan, Bush I, and most especially Clinton.

Clark is a prick anyway. The CIA would hate him as much the Army does now...

Post by **enderzero** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:30 am

SpeedCricket - Actually I was in the US. I spent the last week in Colorado with a bunch of friends boarding. The interesting thing is that all of the dudes I was hangin out with were quite intelligent, yet any one of them could tell you the Must-See-TV lineup and they all knew way more about sports than I did. However, we had great political exchanges and they were able to clue me in on a lot of the stuff I missed since I have been over here.

Beeeph - Your answer can't seriously be that the only reason you like Edwards is because you do not like Kerry. Weren't you just complaining that that was the wrong reason for people voting against Bush?

Beeeph · Post by **Beeeph** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:25 am

enderzero wrote:Beeeph - Your answer can't seriously be that the only reason you like Edwards is because you do not like Kerry. Weren't you just complaining that that was the wrong reason for people voting against Bush?

allow me to repeat myself

beeeph wrote:To be honest with you, I don't really care for any of the dem candidates this time around, including edwards

Post by **enderzero** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:35 am

Even Sharpton?

Beeeph · Post by **Beeeph** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:47 am

ok fine, Sharpton's cool.

Post by **enderzero** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:17 am

But Sharpton is further left than all of them except maybe Kucinich and Graham. I thought you liked the candidates that were more towards the middle!?

Beeeph · Post by **Beeeph** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:48 am

I was being facetious rydawg

Post by **enderzero** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:34 am

Well which is it, facetious about Sharpton or Edwards? Middle or Left?? Hmmmmmm???

Beeeph · Post by **Beeeph** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:33 pm

http://www.imrickjamesbitch.com

mistasparkle* · Post by mistasparkle* » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:04 pm

ok beeph... so you've established that you don't care for any of the dem candidates... Do you think Bush is the best choice out of all the candidates? (if so.... why)

Ocean11 · Post by **Ocean11** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:58 pm

What would be the impact on the election of say, Bin Laden being caught?

Post by **enderzero** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:01 pm

What about if Bin Laden joined the race?

Post by **enderzero** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:07 pm

I imagine it wouldn't be bad news for Bush... but I don't know if it alone would tip the scales. He has been trying for almost 3 years unsuccessfully, let alone that Bin Laden has been wanted for years and years before September 11th.

Any consipiracy theorists out there come up with the idea that Bush knows Bin Laden's location or even already has him captured and is just waiting for the perfect moment (say, right before the first debate) to begin the spectacle?

Beeeph · Post by **Beeeph** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:29 pm

mistersparkly wrote:ok beeph... so you've established that you don't care for any of the dem candidates... Do you think Bush is the best choice out of all the candidates? (if so.... why)

no.

rydawg wrote:What about if Bin Laden joined the race? I imagine it wouldn't be bad news for Bush... but I don't know if it alone would tip the scales.

If bush don't start making sense of me spending $2.299/10 on a gallon of arco water for the fourth consecutive summer, I'm tippin my vote towards Osammy B when he runs!

rydawg wrote:Any consipiracy theorists out there come up with the idea that Bush knows Bin Laden's location or even already has him captured and is just waiting for the perfect moment (say, right before the first debate) to begin the spectacle?

That would be phuqin awesome! Thats exactly what this race needs, more spectacles.

SpeedCricket · Post by **SpeedCricket** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:23 pm

...let's be realistic about the blame for 9/11. It's not with Bush II. It's with Carter, Reagan, Bush I, and most especially Clinton.

Actually, Bush called off the CIA investigation into the BinLaden family that the Clinton admin started (The quote was: "back off the bin-Ladens"). Not that I like Clinton; he's just as worthless and corrupt as the others, but at least his administration was on the right track. I remember after bin-laden declared war on the US (before anyone even knew who he was), the Clinton admin beefed up security at the military bases because of it. As soon as BushII hit office, security returned to minimal. Also, one of the primary investors in Bush II's first biz was none other than the patriarch of the bin-Laden family. I would mostly blame Reagan based upon the evidence that is available - after he and Nancy kick off expect we will learn a lot more about that scandelous administration - but Bush II's administration undoubtedly has some dirt on their hands too.

Bill Drayton Jr. · Post by **Bill Drayton Jr.** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:29 pm

I feel sick...

Ocean11 · Post by **Ocean11** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:05 am

SpeedCricket, "See No Evil" by Robert Baer is a good look at the hollowing out of the CIA. Also, I wouldn't bother reading our man Clyde for anything on the Marshall Plan - I've nearly finished and it's only mentioned in passing. But as a very thorough overview of the current US position in the world, it's excellent. Clyde has been spending far too much time talking to anti-American foreigners that he's become completely unhinged

Does anybody else shake their head in wonderment at all the talk of 'negative campaigning'? How on earth can you possibly conduct politics without without pointing your finger and saying 'No, that's bollocks'? Whatever happened to the concept of honest attacks?

SpeedCricket · Post by **SpeedCricket** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:32 pm

Read "See No Evil" about 3 months ago. I liked the part where he's in central Asia chatting with the soldiers who don't even know that the USSR had fallen a year prior who then try to "convince" him he should leave his translator girl with them. I would have kept that box of grenades though!

Bill Drayton Jr. · Post by **Bill Drayton Jr.** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:19 am

I think they have no place here on the lair...just so you all know...tis futile...

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