The most important week of our lives

Darth Vective · Post by **Darth Vective** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:11 pm

OK.

Well if you must vote for Bush without really knowing why, please also poo in a bucket without really knowing why by way of compensation.

http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/humanure.html

R3C · Post by **R3C** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:55 pm

Ok.

I agree with you politically, just not personally. I mostly had a problem with the expectation of sensible responses while calling names. I also didn't mean "be nice" on a political level. That would never work. I'm saying if people got over their inherent need of beeing fuck heads, then most of the problems of humanity would be solved.

Goemon · Post by **Goemon** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:18 pm

What's with the flags...?

Those are internationally recognized distress signals.

McNevin · Post by **McNevin** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:41 pm

People were joking that Dibold probably got the rights to be the sole provider of atm macines in rebuilt iraq.

Bill Drayton Jr. · Post by **Bill Drayton Jr.** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:55 pm

Whoa! what is this? people getting upset at each other while talking about politics?!?!?! FUCKING AMAZING!!!! I would have never thought such a thing could happen...

Hmmm... didn't Darth Vective (as Ocean11) tell me to fuck off once? I think he did! And I think it had something to do with Beeph too...maybe I should hate DarthVective? Yes. I hate him.

wrote a little song about it too...wanna hear it? here it goes!

I know of this annoying non-monkey DarthVective
I don't like him - he's given me no incentive
He used to go by the handle Ocean11
He likes to verbally assault the monkey brethren

I wonder if he has ever received any email...from a female...
Maybe he's uncomfortable with Bush & Dick?
Either way he makes me sick!

Please go away DarthVective!
You are too anal retentive!

mmmmm..mmmmmmm...yeah!!!!!!!

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:17 am

ROFLCOPTER!

R3C · Post by **R3C** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:17 am

Where is the ol' roflcopter?

GSA · Post by **GSA** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:41 pm

This is a grand thread! In my horor, watching the state of the world, I am ever so encouraged by your abilities to express, listen, hear and try again to be heard. Then to come back and talk again......that is what it will take!

Darth Becile · Post by **Darth Becile** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Well it looks as though Bush is buying some dead Iraqi citizens in Falluja with his new political capital. When he promised to 'spread freedom', I knew it meant something bad, but didn't go so far as to imagine it would include turning inhabited cities into free fire zones.

I wonder if there are any Iraqis who have seen the marines pray openly and listen to their leaders spout Christian jibberish (of some apparently heretical sect), who don't still think it's some kind of crusade. Fucked up, badly.

Bill Drayton Jr. · Post by **Bill Drayton Jr.** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:39 am

Brilliant! Bring religion into this conversation! I love it.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:04 am

Your precious "Iraqi citizens" raided a legit Iragi police station, took 25 some-odd IRAQI police officers, who were dedicated to helping their own people, outside and executed them in the street.. Way to support the psychopaths, Darth! The people who the marines are after aren't exactly saints themselves. People who execute men and women on film, hang their bodies above bridges, then send the footage to news stations aren't "swell Iraqi locals".

Did you think that if John Kerry was elected that everything would just be ok again? We would just pull out all the troops and everything would be flowers and candy?? Wrong. Unfortunately Bush has a job to finish, if those Marines want to pray to god, let them. Hell, I probably would be to if I was over there.

Why don't you complain about Tony Blair once in a while? Hes Bush's butt puppet.

Goemon · Post by **Goemon** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:16 am

Can we please stop the bickering and talk about the issue at hand:
Should married Iraqi lesbians be allowed to legally use medical marijuana in public places of worship when they are recovering from the abortion they underwent to supply stem cell research?

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:59 am

Only if I can laugh about Chris Reeves sucking stem cells out of cracked open fetus necks in order to gain the power to walk.

Darth Becile · Post by **Darth Becile** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:24 am

Agent Bos, some of those Iraqi citizens could be you. If a coalition of say, Chinese and Turkish troops invaded Japan tomorrow, I might be tempted to resist them. I might also be tempted to kill anybody who cooperated with them. Then again, I might decide that what that weird coalition had to offer was just right for Japan, and cooperate with them myself. Maybe you could put your powers of fantasy to use and imagine what it might be like to be a citizen of Falluja yourself, one of the vast majority that would not willingly behead somebody themselves. Really, how many of the people there are 'terrorists'? How many can just up sticks and fuck off when Rumsfeldt tells them to?

I don't know what would have happened if Kerry were elected. I wouldn't have voted for him if I could have. I could have voted for Tony Bliar and I never have and won't because he's a war criminal too.

But if you want to talk about supporting the psychopaths, how about this? Take for example this Zarquawi fellow who is said not to be in Falluja anyway. He takes individuals hostage, he demands that their nation's soldiers leave Iraq (not unreasonable I think), and when they do, he releases the hostage. Or if they don't, he beheads the hostage. I haven't been keeping an exact tally, but I think the people that his group have killed have all been petty war profiteers with whom I have no sympathy whatsoever. That's 1 person at a time, with due warning, and with a chance of survival. Now compare that with a single US gunship firing electric chain-guns as it circles over a populated city putting a heavy round in every square inch. Which is psychopathic? The little guy with the sword and the video camera. Right I think so too.

Ask yourself too if those policemen and the innocent citizens of Falluja would have been killed under Saddam's rule.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:23 am

Darth Becile wrote:Agent Bos, some of those Iraqi citizens could be you. If a coalition of say, Chinese and Turkish troops invaded Japan tomorrow, I might be tempted to resist them. I might also be tempted to kill anybody who cooperated with them.

Riiiiight, especially if they came in to take out the guy who gased my parents and their parents. The same guy who tortured my brother who was on the Iraqi soccer team, which unfortunately didn't win a medal 8 years ago.

Darth Becile wrote:II haven't been keeping an exact tally, but I think the people that his group have killed have all been petty war profiteers with whom I have no sympathy whatsoever.

They've killed humanitarian workers mind you. Pay more attention before you say you don't have sympathy for human life. I honestly think you need to sit down and re-evaluate your high opinion of Sadam and his regime. Like I've said previously, I don't necessarily think Bush did the correct thing by invading without U.N. and Coalition support, however it doesn't make me think that Sadam is the great leader of men and humanitarian that you hold in such a high regard. You sure make it sound like you're waiting behind every corner, waiting for Sadam to get up so you can sniff his chair.

Darth Becile wrote:Ask yourself too if those policemen and the innocent citizens of Falluja would have been killed under Saddam's rule.

I don't have to ask, Sadam killed tens of thousands of his own people with chemicals, tortured them, and encouraged his sons and cousins to carry on the legacy the same as he. Rule by fear and murder. Wanna have a look at the mass graves? Why don't you head over to Iraq and have the locals drive you out?

Darth Becile · Post by **Darth Becile** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:18 am

Straw man argument. I don't think Saddam was wonderful. But he did not preside over anything like the state of anarchy that prevails now. And don't forget, when some other criminal tortures and rapes people, that's their moral responsibility. When our boys do it, that's our moral responsibility. In two wars and a state of seige, we killed more Iraqis than Saddam ever did. In a simple comparison of evil, we come out worse. And people like you are also full of trite justifications for it. The likely result of all this will be someone who can control Iraq, someone like .... Saddam.

Which humanitarian workers have been killed by insurgents?

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:22 am

It was only a matter of time, and I'm sorry that innocent people are dying, war is ugly and I don't like it either.

And its not about someONE who can control Iraq, it's about Iraqis controlling it, not Sadam.

First of all, you should get your facts straight before posting here. It's called "due dilligence". The act of backing up arguments by doing research and gathering facts from credible resources.

It is currently understood that more than a million Iraqis have been considered missing or dead under Sadams control. That is WAY more than who have died from war in Iraq since 1988. Even Lancet's hightest count reach 100,000. Get over yourself!!!

Unfortunately MANY humanitarians including Red-Cross volunteers have been killed in Iraq. Here is just one example...and note the date! Honestly, which hole have you been hiding in? Look it up, its all there...it's legit, you can cross-verify this stuff.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3217839.stm

People like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi who do not have anyone's best interest in mind. They aren't Iraqi, they don't practice traditional Islam, they are simply in Iraq because they hate westerners, ALL OF THEM...not just Americans and they are opportunistic when it comes to accomplishing their goals. Even if that means killing innocent Iraqis who are honestly working to make their country free.

Get of your high horse of "hi, the world is chaos and he is bad and she is bad and they are bad and I'm just gonna complain about everything and everyone and not vote and argue bogus facts because I think one way and someone thinks the other and I don't agree with anyones view because somehow someway its bad bad bad". It's annoying and weak.

.... · Post by **....** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:57 am

Darth Becile · Post by **Darth Becile** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:57 pm

Agent Bos, you're slippery. We were talking about hostage beheadings. Zarqawi's group have not, as far as I know, beheaded anybody who is not a war profiteer. Everything you say about him can be said of many Americans who are currently in Iraq, substituting 'Islam' with 'Christianity', and 'westerners' with 'Muslims'. Remember the business at Abu Ghraib? (you can remind yourself here; http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444 You may also find this non-partisan site educational - you need it badly) Whose interest was that in?

To quote from that BBC article;
"Workers for the Coalition Provisional Authority say they are not able to fill the void left by aid agency pull-outs.

"The aid agencies provide the people with food, medical assistance and construction efforts. If they were to leave, these things would not then be finding their way into the community. The Coalition Military is not structured or equipped to conduct the task," Tim Severino, an Australian working for the authority, told BBC News Online."

So driving out aid agencies serves a purpose, albeit in a very zero-sum sort of world (which Iraq is, hadn't you noticed??) With unemployment at between 70 and 80% in Iraq, and a workforce regarded as the most capable in the ME, you think they need and welcome all that outside help? Especially when it comes with soldiers arresting and shooting people all over the place?

"It is currently understood that more than a million Iraqis have been considered missing or dead under Sadams control" ... figures out of a big propaganda hat. If you believe that, give me the breakdown.

You need to stop making straw man arguments if you want to have a discussion. And if you keep insisting on the George Bush 'peance freance Iraq' line, you should ask yourself; well, is it more or less peance freance now than it was before? It's a pretty simple test...

Darth Becile · Post by **Darth Becile** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:08 pm

Read some stuff written by real Iraqis and wake the fuck up!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story ... 54,00.html

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:25 pm

This is your credible source? "The Guardian"??? Can we say blatent one-sided propaganda?? Please, Try again.

Darth Becile · Post by **Darth Becile** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:33 pm

Bos, dear, you need to rethink your approach as a consumer of news. All media outlets sometimes provide accurate news, and all media, including the Guardian, often provide news that doesn't pass a 1-second sniff test. You just have to learn to distinguish for yourself.

Did you actually read the article?

Darth Becile · Post by **Darth Becile** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:51 pm

Fucking moron

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:51 pm

I did. I even browsed over a few of the other articles they had to offer.

http://www.untoldiraq.org/story/story2.cfm

Darth Becile · Post by **Darth Becile** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:00 pm

"For 35 years Saddam pushed us down. He forced me to leave my home and my community to find safety. But now, we have been given freedom for the first time. It is all new and feels like a dream. We have a new government who I think is good and who promises to do great things. We can live and work and learn and hope."

And your point is...?

Darth Becile · Post by **Darth Becile** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:07 pm

"The Iraq-America Freedom Alliance (IAFA) is a coalition of American and Iraqi organizations and individuals committed to fostering goodwill between our nations' citizens and winning the war on terror. We support a free, democratic and pluralistic Iraq that is at peace with the world. IAFA will provide Americans with a fuller picture of Iraq by giving voice to Iraqis who are grateful for their newfound freedom and working to secure democracy in their country."

Thanks Bos, I'll take the Guardian. At least it has some scepticism about the war on terror and isn't limited only to grateful Iraqis. Please, try again.

As I said before, fucking moron. Did you vote Bush or what?

How about supporting an America that is at peace with world? Physician, heal thyself.

Goemon · Post by **Goemon** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:21 pm

Ocean: (you may have stated it before and I missed it between the "fucking moron" comments, but) What is your suggestion for the US in Iraq now?

Should they do a wholesale pullout?

Should they cease and desist any "major" operations (like the one in Falluja) and limit themselves to a temporary defensive position in already secured areas. This would be predicated on an eventual exit from Iraq in...3 months? 6 months? 12 months?

I'm certainly not happy that the US jumped into Iraq with our flag over our eyes, but we're there now. What is your idea on the way we get out of there?

Darth Becile · Post by **Darth Becile** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:47 pm

Ah, good, somebody who makes sense at last.

What to do now is obviously an extremely complex problem, but in outline, the US and the UK should first of all apologize and repent. That would have to involve the perpetrators being punished in some way. They should stop talking about a war on terror in Iraq, because there isn't one. Taking these unprecedented steps is the only way to get started on a solution.

The next step is to demilitarize. Why take up defensive positions? What purpose would that serve? If demilitarizing involves a complete pullout of all personnel, so be it. It may then be possible for NGOs from many nations to go back to Iraq safely. If the US and UK still care at all, they can fund foreign NGOs or any indigenous initiatives that meet honest criteria. They owe a lot of money in reparations. If other countries want to hold their conference on Iraq, they should limit themselves to discussing what constitutes honest criteria for support.

Once all the propaganda is cleared about how Iraqis can't live together, how the 'terrorists' are all nihilists, how Iran will step into the vacuum, then what you are left with is the remains of a state that will have to coalesce to survive, and a large number of educated people who realize that need, and strongly desire that outcome.

Can you see anything else working? (I understand that countries apologizing and repenting is not something we see very often, but you asked for my suggestion, and I also believe in something called 'political will' which in my own small, weak way, I try to build. It sure beats being willfully blind and cynical.)

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:03 pm

Hey Ocean, I didn't vote for Bush...you wayside-watching, "i have the solution" fucknose.

How about you take your insults and shove them up your 1-sided ass, ay? You wanna call me a fucking moron???

How many times do I have to beat it into your fucking cow shit for brains that I don't support the war how it went down and I didn't vote for Bush? God damn, don't you read, motherfucker? Didn't your mother express to you as a child how important reading is? Don't come on here and give me "The Guardian" as a credible resource right after telling me about "sniff tests" you dumbass, you're making yourself look even more idiotic than everyone previously believed. You obviously live in your own little world where you read antiwar propaganda all the live long day and form your "credible" opinion from it. Then you can steal ideas from other antiwar propagandists mesh them together, spit them out on a message board and start calling people "fucking morons". Well FUCK YOU. Take your self righteous bullshit observations and conclusion and fuck yourself with them, you ignorant son of a bitch.

Darth Becile · Post by **Darth Becile** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:12 pm

Go play with your haw flakes. That's all you're good for.

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The most important week of our lives